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UC Sports
Bill Koch offers the latest on the Cincinnati Bearcats


Bill Koch is a sportswriter covering the University of Cincinnati's athletics.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008

UC in Big East Tournament?

Having reached the midway point in the regular season, I had planned to pose the question today of whether UC would be able to win enough games to surpass last year's win total of 11. But now that the Bearcats are 2-1 in the Big East, with three wins in their last four games, that line of questioning seems rather insulting. Instead, perhaps it's better to ask if this team will be one of 12 that qualify for the Big East Tournament in March. And if it is, what does that tell you about the progress that Mick Cronin has made in his second year as head coach?


36 Comments:

at 12:00 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bill, I think you have to add one more level to your questioning: Can they muster enough success to become an NIT participant this year? I think that ought to be on their radar screen at this point. Look at their home schedule in conference -- it's pretty favorable, particularly in February. I believe they have to .500 to get into postseason, so they'll need to play one game over .500 the rest of the way to get it done.

I'm not counting them out -- this team looks like it has some gumption to it, and reaching the NIT would be considered a nice reward for that batch of seniors who came in to bail us out short-term last year.

 
at 12:05 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Progress? Yes the team has improved. But on what scale?

If you are content with mediocre play, results, and slow pace of development, then as a bearcat fan you're delighted.

 
at 12:09 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

For 10 years, the UC BB program was an 8 on a 1-10 scale, as recently as four years ago. Now the program has grown from a 1 to a 2-3. Happy?

 
at 12:40 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

II think this team is much improved from where they were in November. However it may still be a stretch to put them in the Big East tournament. The improvement of young players such as McClain and Vaughn with Williams to return from injury and the addition of Yates and Aldridge next season this team could make the turn back to a competitive team.

 
at 12:42 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

When just last year the UC team had football players on its team just to have enough to play, then yes progress is being made.. To be able to compete this season with the roster he has to work with is amazing..

In two years or so, when Vaughn is a senior, and the freshman now are juniors, this team could really be good.. Especially with some of the higher ranked recruits coming in next year as well..

 
at 12:55 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:05 that commentary is just asinine.

Do you expect them to be blowing teams like Louisville and Syracuse away at this point?

Some of you people are just being ridiculous. It's time to grow up and stop the incessant whining. It's childish and moronic. Daddy's gone and he's not coming back.

UC is making great strides after essentially starting over less than 2 years ago.

 
at 12:57 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nowhere to put this but here:

Next game when Adam H goes in, CHEER LOUDLY. That poor kid - unbelievable. All we can do is try to make it up to him next game, and assuming some people will continue their lifestyle as complete a**holes and boo him again, we need to make sure he can't hear them.

 
at 1:00 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I look at the rest of the schedule, and I see as many as 8 more wins. That would get them into the BEast Tournament. I would be happy with that, because I think that would also get them to the NIT.

When you consider where they were 20 months ago (a virtual death penalty), the job that Mick Cronin has done has to be considered remarkable.

 
at 1:06 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the progress has been great so far, and I fully expect for it to continue. They might not knock off any of the ranked Big East teams this year, but who knows? They definitely are way ahead of the team that only won 2 Big East games last year and lost 13 games by double figures.

In the 2009-2010 season, I believe the Bearcats will be back in the top quarter of the league.

 
at 1:10 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The timing of Zimpher's firing of Huggins resulted in basically a self-imposed death penalty for Bearcat basketball. For Cronin to come in and have UC with a realistic shot at qualifying for The Big East Tourney and being invited to the the NIT this quickly is amazing. Time to get season tickets while demand is still low.

 
at 1:16 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone who can't say positive things about the progress being made in Clifton, has blinders on. To not be happy with the progress made to this point shows a complete lack of knowledge of college basketball and its landscape. Anon 12:05 and 12:09 are ridiculous to think the problems Mick inherited would be fixed overnight or in one year. I am excited about the rest of the season and so is every other fan who has common sense. To expect UC to be an upper-level Big East team at this point in the rebuilding process is insane - fans should be happy that we are 2-1 now and have already equaled our conference win total from last (in the first three games).

 
at 1:17 PM Blogger Rob Bernard said...

Anyone know offhand how many wins it took last year to make the cut for the BE tournament?

The improvement of late has been most encouraging, but it doesn't lend itself easily to forecasting. They've shown that the CAN win any game they play but they've also shown the inconsistency to lose any game they play. If they play as they have against Louisville and Syracuse they certainly can make the tournament but we really have no idea how many performances will be of Louisville/Syracuse level and how many will be like St. Johns.

 
at 1:20 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Progress? Yes the team has improved. But on what scale?

If you are content with mediocre play, results, and slow pace of development, then as a bearcat fan you're delighted.


..................

If you are content having league play against St. Bonventure and Fordham and not ever making the Final Four, Xavier is the place for you.

 
at 1:30 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good questions Bill. But my only hesitation in thinking that these guys will make the postseason is who shows up the rest of the year? Will it be the St.Johns/UAB Bearcats or the Louisville/Syracuse Bearcats. They have to be consistent, which we may be seeing with the 3-1 record they have posted in the last 4 games. DePaul beats Villanova in Chicago and UC beats Louisville in Freedom Hall...i.e. any given night in this conference can be a "W".

Kudos to 12:55 for speaking out against the idiocracy of some who post their rants here (12:05 and 12:09). These guys are getting better and for a coach to have them where they are in his second year with the players he has is fantastic. And yes, in 2 more years this team will be a Top 20 team competing for a Big East title. With the guys he has now and the ones coming in, I wouldn't sell them short of competing for a top 3 Conference finish next year.

Great to see a bigger crowd at Fifth-Third last night. A la the West Virginia game last year, the home crowd DOES make a difference. As for Adam H., I think as fans we were expecting more than maybe what this kid can give. Or maybe he is shell-shocked from the play in D-1 basketball. But for a guy who played in the Polish Professional League(????), there is an obvious GAP between what Poland says is pro-ball and what we call college hoops. Great free-throw shooter but LOST the rest of the game. I hope he comes around. I was expecting more from this guy. I'd be tempted to start A.McClain over Adam.

 
at 1:31 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

We have a long way to go. But at least we appear to not completely suck anymore.

 
at 1:40 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mick Cronin came into a bad situation. Most of the fans (note, not the wealthy ones who get a say) miss bobby, can't stand Nancy and wish they would have kept Andy (what a job he is doing at Ole Miss). I was against Mick, but now realize after going to the game last night he is making improvment. I could do no better, but I wish it would come quick. I don't want this team to become the joke of the Big East. I don't know if they get enough W's to get in this year, but next year is a must with about a 500 win record in the BE and a win or two in New York to get into the NCAA or the fans will turn against Mick Cronin

 
at 1:50 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Make Final 4 Plans, XU Fans" - yesterday

"Can UC Make the Big East Tournament" - today


Love it. And to your comment about contentment playng St Bonnie's and Fordam. What is the difference. X plays dominant teams in Nov and Dec. UC plays dominant teams in Jan and Feb. The top 6 A-10 teams are just as good as the top 6 Big East teams. It is the after that where the Big East is better...much better.

 
at 2:04 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

One game at a time. Sheeesh.

Beat Louisville? The season is saved. Oh hail to Sippin' Mick.

Lose to John-John's? Mick is hung from the rafters.

Beat Syracuse? Buy your tournament tickets.

How about some common sense?

 
at 3:08 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bill to answer your question. This team appears to be what most reasonable basketball fans would expect. They have good but not great talent and they are young. So you would expect them to finish in Big East conference standings somewhere below the top 4 and above the bottom 4, that is a 5 thru 12 finish. They should continue to improve with a dumb/immature loss from time to time. Should make it into the Big East tourney in Madison Square Garden. Expect the top of the league to win it at 14-4 or 13-5. Georgetown looks like the team to beat there. A good season for UC at about 10-8 on the high side and 8-10 on the low side. Progress versus last year and a good foundation to improve to 13-5 next year.

Also, there is no way the A-10 top 6 is as good as the Big East. Will be confirmed in the NCAA tourney in March.

 
at 3:08 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we come out to support our team, yes...

If we don't, no...

 
at 3:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

they just have to beat the teams they are supposed to beat, seton hall rutgers and usf. simple math. then one or two more "upsets" will do.

 
at 3:19 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

X plays dominant teams in Nov and Dec. UC plays dominant teams in Jan and Feb.

............

There is a big difference in playing non-conference games as opposed to league play. Less intense because of what's at stake and the rivalries. Also UC played Memphis, NC State, UAB, Miami, Xavier, and Illinois State. That is pretty a pretty good slate. And that is on top of a brutal conference schedule.

The top 6 in the A-10 are no where close to the top of the Big East. When is the last time the A-10 made any noise in the dance?

But hey, X does have the mid-major player of the week!!!

 
at 3:28 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

They are doing a fantastic job given their situation. This year is the last year in question as to whether or not they will make it in the Big East tournament becuase next year (2009) all teams are in.

The Presidents of the BIG EAST Conference voted to include all 16 member institutions in the men’s and women’s basketball championship tournaments beginning in 2009.

 
at 3:35 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man, the last week has been nice here on the East Coast. I have Villanova, Pitt, Tenn., and Duke alums here. Nothing but pleasant and surprised comments from my co-workers regarding the early success by the Bearcats in the Big East. MC beating 2 Hall of Fame coaches has been commented on here. I am only 1.5 hours south of MSG and looking forward to watching the Bearcats at the Big East tourney.
Of course the Bearcats have made good progress but they have a lot of work to do to get to top 6 in the Big East. Has any Big East team finished in the top 6 every year the last 10 years?

 
at 3:40 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Top 6 A-10 teams as good as the top 6 Big East teams? That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Georgetown
Pitt
Marquette
Villanova
Notre Dame
Louisville

Compared to:

X
Dayton
URI
UMass
?
?



Xavier has a good team this year, no doubt. And they are most likely the best team in the A-10, but X would be middle of the pack in the Big East at best. The bottom half of the A-10 would struggle to win a game in the Big East, and the top half would be lucky to go .500.

 
at 4:18 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Middle of the pack? Maybe last year, and maybe next year. But correct me if I'm wrong, but the big east is WAY down THIS year. That being said, the A-10 is way up this year. No way, at best, would xavier be at the middle of the big east.

Its funny, now that UC has had a couple of down years, the only arguments fans have are they are in a better conference.

On that note, in a few more years, Mick will get the program at least close to where it was. And as a xavier fan, i'm glad because I want the shootout to be back to what it used to.

 
at 4:23 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But correct me if I'm wrong, but the big east is WAY down THIS year. "

You are wrong. Consider yourself corrected.

 
at 4:37 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Too many early losses to be thinking NIT - I see UC finishing around 13-17 (8-10) and I think that should be considered a very good improvement over last season.

On a side note, Ohio State football rules the lives of everybody in Ohio. It's more relevant in Cincinnati than UC football and UC fans just need to get over it and accept it and stop wasting their time on the message boards talking trash about Ohio State all the time. Enjoy the season you had and the direction your team is going. It will never be more relevant than Ohio State, even in the city of Cincinnati, so just stop it already.

 
at 4:49 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

According to the Sagarin Ratings, the Big East is the #3 conference in Division 1. The A-10 is 7th.

X would be in the top quarter of the Big East - they are every bit as good as the top Big East Teams I have seen this year (Pitt, WVU, Marquette and Georgetown). Rhody would have a chance to be in the top third. And Dayton would be in the top half. But the rest of the A-10 would struggle to win more than a couple of Big East games.

 
at 5:06 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

"you are wrong, consider yourself corrected"

cute post. backed up with no facts.

The big east has 4 teams in the top 25, the highest ranked of those is georgetown at #7 who was beaten handily by memphis. The next highest is marquette at #15. Compared to years past, this is below average. The A-10 has 3 teams in the current top 25. Dayton put an absolute beat down on ranked pitt. UC, a below .500 team, with losses to belmont and illinois state is 2-1 in big east play. There is no dominant team, such as pitt last year, villanova the year before, or the years uconn had before that.

To say the big east is not down this year is plain ignorant.

 
at 6:31 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey people UC is doing fine. Remember we lost our best interior player Mike Williams and if he were healthy were probably 11-4 and a lock for the NIT. Warren was also out for the few first games. The A-10 is a terrible conference whose won 21 NCAA Tournament games in the last 10 years compared to 85 for the Big East. Please do not mention the A-10 in the same breath as the Big East.

 
at 6:37 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

big time recruiters don't take 5 years to build a BB recruiting class.

The top 10-20 coaches/recruiters can turn around a program within 3 years.

We will settle for less at UC because we have low expectations, low demands, and no other options.

UC BB has adopted the former UC FB program's expectations. WOW !!!!

 
at 8:34 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Xavier's basketball and football teams have the same number of Final Four's.

 
at 10:18 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

the bitterness of the angst ridden XU fans (with their obvious need for Bearcat fans attention) is hilarious. Vacuous dullards one and all! Your team is playing great! I think you'd want to enjoy it. Rather you choose to embarrass yourselves by spewing garbage on a UC blog. Obsessive? Clearly. Nice job. As for Mick, he's playing the hand he was dealt deftly and confidently. It's fun to watch a team grow (from nothing) and learn. Sure, I miss Huggs and the perennial 23 win seasons, but Mick is here now and he's got my full support. As for those who booed Adam H...You should be ashamed. I'm embarassed for you.

 
at 7:18 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

no, i don't see this team getting into the tournament.

amazing improvememt from the earlier games - like a different team.

still not a good team yet.

 
at 12:40 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The little brother (X) always wants to be like the big brother (UC). It is natural. The fact is the top teams in the A-10 would do well in the Big East, for a few weeks. But then they would wear down quickly. The A10 teams are not built for the slug fest that takes place every game in the Big East. They do well in their one or two big games, but to play in a conference that every game is a big game, the A10 teams just could not compete nite after nite.

Xavier has a nice team this year. Anyone that does not see that is a fool. The A10 has a few good teams to go along with X, but to compare the A10 to the big East is a joke.

Xavier fans, sit back and enjoy your team, stop worrying about the big brother in Clifton. UC will right the ship and again be an upper level team in the near future.

 
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