Retired numbers
Only three UC men's basketball players have had their numbers retired: Oscar Robertson, of course; Jack Twyman and Kenyon Martin. I've always thought a program with the strong tradition of UC's should have more than that. What do you think? Should be there more? If so, who should get that honor? Danny Fortson? Steve Logan? Pat Cummings? Roger McClendon? What about the guys from the national championship teams like Tom Thacker, Paul Hogue, Ron Bonham, George Wilson and Tony Yates?
16 Comments:
Couldn't agree more with the fact that some former players deserve more recognition for putting or keeping UC BB on the national scene. Most of the names mentioned would be viable candidates for just that.
Three people whose names should never be publicly displayed are Cattlett, Badger and Yates. In fact, I always thought nobody would or could wreck UC BB any more than these three did during their fiasco tenures.
But than along comes Z and some of the BOT and that premise bit the dust.
Selections for retirement of jerseys is a great idea. Let's hope that if it happens that we won't be looking at a name or names that in the long term did not help UC and the basketball program.
I would be all for UC retiring more numbers but I would like to see them retire UC graduates only and not just players, which would eliminate a number of players from the list.
i recall reading during Logan's time that UC policy is that only "consensus all-americans" get their numbers retired, which is why only 3 so far. Which begs the question -- why so elitist?
If top programs like Duke can retire numbers seemingly every year, why can't UC honor more? Wouldn't that help attract recruits, reinforce fan and alumni loyalty? What's the downside?
Steve Logan deserves it. So does Nick Van Exel, unless the juco thing excludes him. Perhaps Roger McClendon, especially considering the lean times he played through...
I've always like the fact that UC has been very selective in retiring numbers. I'm not saying there aren't any other deserving players, but the criteria should be high.
North Carolina has a pretty simple rule for having your jersey retired: be a consensus national Player of the Year. We could try following that criterion.
If it becomes subjective, then who chooses? Using what criteria? There will always be someone who "should" be recognized, but isn't.
Why lower the standards? The players' numbers that are retired, deserve to be retired. I can not think of anyone else who was on their level. Dumb idea.
ST CSA
"Let's hope that if it happens that we won't be looking at a name or names that in the long term did not help UC and the basketball program."
What a BRILLIANT post, WLM! Duh.
Bill,
I agree totally that, with UC's great tradition, recognizing great achievements of past stars would help attract recruits and give all current players something to live up to.
One requirement I would suggest is that the individual got their degree.
not sure but arent cincy's numbers actually retired? As in that no one else can wear them? I think that makes it much more important than schools like duke and unc who honor tons of numbers (I believe in the teens)
Retiring a number and not allowing anyone else to wear it is something special and I like the way UC does it. There is also a wall with the all-Americans which is unique. Maybe they should honor the championships and their players a little more.
I think the way they do it is great.
Truly a very fantastic obervation, Montana Sieve! Bill made the suggestion of retiring Tony Yates' number, not me. Of course, being so BRILLIANT, I suppose you missed that little fact.
Anyway, I'm surprised that you're not at your favorite site, the 'X' blog. Business slow over there? Thad probably misses you...
I believe the criteria is National Player of the year not consensus All American. Think Logan and Fortson were both consnsus all americans. Thats the way it should be. Make it special. UNC has some 30 jerseys hanging from the rafters. How special is that. Make it difficult. If you dont have set criteria then you make it subjective and you can tick off players who thought they should have their number retired and dont. Dont need any animosity from players at UC. Make the criteria, known and make it a high standard. National Player of the Year.
Speaking of players having their numbers retired. I know Kenyon was going to take his down when the Huggs debacle took place. Just wondering if it is still down or got put back up.
Kenyon Martins jersey never came down. he asked for it to be taken down after Huggins was fired, but the school never did.
WLM,
Why do you insist on ripping former members of the Bearcat family?
Of course, some were more successful than others. But where you and I part company is when you look for reasons to criticize, but I look at the positives.
I agree with you that Tony Yates was not a good college basketball coach, OK? But he was a GREAT point guard who helped lead UC to 2 national championships.
Should his number be retired? Not in my opinion.
But to only focus on what he DIDN'T accomplish rather than what he DID to help take the Bearcats to the pinnacle of national prominence is not only mean-spirited, but shows a lack of loyalty to him and all the others who gave UC the best they had to offer.
As we both sit on the sidelines, I prefer to appreciate many Bearcat's efforts, not tear them down.
They could make it players that graduated under Huggins as few did so that would really be special. It is a COLLEGE sport after all.
mont stev,
You and others may choose to see things as you see fit. I can assure you that I'm likely as big of a UC fan as any of you. If you choose to see only the positives, that is your choice. You're entitled to your opinions.
As far as Yates, he wasn't a great point guard, although a very good one. Sadly, the same cannot be said regarding his coaching and recruiting.
As far as the future, I have and will continue to call them as I see them, both positive and not so. To do otherwise is to wear rose colored glasses or to sip the koolaid. No reason to ever relinquish objectivity.
Remus,
Check the facts. Huggins' player graduation rate was higher than school overall graduation average. The average for students graduating is around 50%.
Also,If a guy transfers into your school and graduates, he doesn't count. If a guy transfers out of your school and graduates, he doesn't count. If it's a junior-college transfer who graduates, he doesn't count. If he graduates in six years, he counts, but if he graduates in 6.5 years, he doesn't count, like Corie Blount and Mel Levett who took longer but DID graduate.
Per a Vitale article, "Huggins saw his Bearcats turn the corner academically, as 11 players graduated over the past four seasons."
http://insider.espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolumn050823-Huggins.html?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fdickvitale%2fvcolumn050823-Huggins.html
"The fact box points out that eight of the 14 departing seniors over the past three seasons have earned their degrees. It also mentions that 24 of the players who completed their eligibility under Huggins have earned their degrees and that Cincinnati had a 100 percent graduation rate in men's basketball for the class that entered in 1995-96. Finally, it says that Cincinnati won the Conference USA Sport Academic Award in men's basketball in 2001 for having the highest team grade-point average in that sport."
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