University of Cincinnati Sports: About those Top 25 votes

Tuesday, January 22, 2008

About those Top 25 votes

I'm sure UC fans were thrilled to see those five Top 25 votes the Bearcats received in the AP poll this week, but let's be honest, a 9-9 team, no matter how much it has improved in the past few weeks, doesn't deserve to be ranked. I know, they've beaten two Top 25 teams in the past week and a half, but they still struggle to win on the road and well, they're 9-9.

That's not to downplay what they've accomplished or what they might accomplish the rest of the season, but it's too early to be talking about them as a Top 25 team. By the way, those five votes came from a writer from the Journal-Gazette of Ft. Wayne, Ind. named Stacy Clardie. She voted UC 21st. No one else gave UC a single vote.

For the record, UC was last ranked the week of Jan. 9, 2006, when they were 25th. They had just won at Marquette and were playing UConn tough on the road when Armein Kirkland went down with his knee injury. They lost that game and four of their next five, and haven't been ranked since.

58 Comments:

at 11:29 AM

Anonymous said...

the 5 points in the AP poll came all from one voter who had the Bearcats at 21.

while i agree with bill that it isnt deserved, the fact that it happened isnt all that surprising given the bearcats play of late, who they have beaten, and the fact that fifteen top 25 teams lost last week created the perfect storm.

the fact of the matter though is that the top 25 is meaningless. joe lunardi has repeatedly admitted his disdain for the top 25 because it is so inaccurate when predicting the tournament.

what is more important is that the bearcats have put themselves in great position for the post season. they first goal was the big east tournament. that is looking very good right now. they are also in a very good position for the NIT at this part of the season.

and if they keep playing well and beating good teams, they will even be on the ncaa tourney bubble.

very impressive

at 11:39 AM

Anonymous said...

I have a question that is off topic a bit. Last year at home against Notre Dame, UC debuted throwback uniforms. I was wondering if the Cats were going to use them again this year or not. I remember when UC signed thier deal with Adidas throwback merchandise would be available in stores. I have not seen anything with gingerbred Bearcat or any of the old logos on it.

at 11:43 AM

Anonymous said...

Bill,

I started really liking your blog but once again you blew it with all of us. You are way too negative and most of us on other boards will no longer check in to your little blog. Enjoy being alone.

at 12:07 PM

Anonymous said...

the ranking is tainted. Syracuse without key starters - nova and Pitt with injuries. Louisville right before playing Kentucky.

what is amusing is the rampant fever-pitch in which 'fans' are grabbing this and saying woohoo - Mick is better than any other coach out there.

they have improved - but are not deserving of top ranking.

Other coaches have correctly stated that this is fools gold. Guess we can call this the rush of '08 for the bearcat faithful.

PS - a team with 5 seniors and no '3rd year D1' players means next years team will have no seniors - will that be the next cronin cry?

at 12:10 PM

Anonymous said...

Well it's not like only 1 person voted them in the top 25. Cincy also received a vote in the Coach's poll. Call them both out or neither imo.

at 12:12 PM

Anonymous said...

The important thing about getting votes is the fact that we are generating positive vibes out there. We all know we're not truly a Top team yet. You don't have to condescend to the fanbase. The "real story" is that the votes are another indicator of progress. That's the message you missed Bill. You don't have to be so literal. We get nuance out here.

at 12:35 PM

Anonymous said...

To be the best, you have to beat the best, and the Bearcats are now beating the best teams out there.

at 12:36 PM

Anonymous said...

12:07 go back into your hole. The same injured Pitt team beat Georgetown. The same Syracuse team took G'Town to OT last night.

pull your head out and realize the crap Cronin inherited...then go watch Bob or Andy. Get lost

at 12:40 PM

Anonymous said...

Why are there so many babies and negative attitudes posting on this blog - if you can't take the criticism and realistic perspective that Bill adds, then don't read his work. As far as UC's wins, U of L had guys coming off injuries, but when you watch that game, Mick outcoached Pitino (he even knew what Rick was going to try and do for the last shot), he adjusted and outcoached Boeheim (and Syracuse had their best two players in Flynn and Green), they adjusted at Half time and beat Villanova, and they beat a "depleted" Pitt team that smoked #6 Georgetown - I think all four of those are sound wins!! As far as next year - the best part about the Freshman, is that they become sophomores (with LOTS of experience)and Vaughn will be back and everyone can agree that he has a change to be of one of the best Bearcats of all time (joining Kenyon, Logan, Fortson, Robertson, etc...).

at 12:43 PM

Anonymous said...

12:07, you are grasping for anything, huh. The road win over U of L is tainted because it was right before they played mighty UK?!?!? Wow. So they were looking ahead? I guess Maryland's win over UNC is degraded because UNC shot poorly . . .

Pitt didn't have trouble knocking off Georgetown with those injuries.

And Syracuse isn't great but still has some stud young guys.

Oh, and don't mention that UC is without a player of their own. That'd be too evenhanded.

And please give me a quote from a coach saying this is "fool's gold." The only quotes I've seen are from Jaime Dixon and Jim Calhoun saying UC's a good team and Cronin's done the best coaching job in the BEast to date.

Your jealousy is blinding. And hilarious. We're 9-9 and you're already scared.

Go back to the "NCAA Blog."

at 12:59 PM

Anonymous said...

A journalist’s job – even in a blog – is not to be “positive,” it’s to report what he sees. Granted, blogs offer more room for opinion, but Bill’s post isn’t jumping to be negative, it’s simply reminding those who might think we’re a win or two away from Top 25 not to falsely get their hopes up. And, if you insist on making judgments, look at the entire body of work….overall this new blog has been pretty favorable to UC, Mick, et al.

To suggest that people will stop reading the blog because of one “negative” post is not only childish, it’s simply false. No one here (in this largely anonymous forum) speaks for anyone else. When Josh was wrapping up there mush much talk of hoping Bill would fill in the void that we wall want filled from the UC blog -- reports from practice, tidbits that don’t go in the paper, etc. We’ve gotten quite a bit of that with new postings every day. Suddenly because you don’t like one post you’re taking your ball and going home, and saying everyone will follow you? That’s stupid and insulting to other readers who don’t need journalists to be cheerleaders. Speak for yourself and that’s it.

at 1:11 PM

Anonymous said...

12:07 has a point - how good was UC without Warren? One of the most pathetic teams around. This is alos the team that gave up 62 points in one half - to ND.

People need to relax - take in the entire body of work - and let the wins and losses fall where they may.

After last years 2 win BE season - it had to go up this year.

I believe mick does throw out way to many excuses - he needs to mature as a coach.

Best thing he can do right now is to continue to develop the freshmenand recruit more / better players

for the next coach.

at 1:11 PM

Anonymous said...

I would agree that Bill should report what he see, however, 9 out of 10 articles are negative.

Bill, when are we going to see another sex gate story? Is there anything else negative you would like to write about UC.

Josh was the epitomy of balanced coverage. He criticized when it was due and offered praise when warranted. Bill, maybe you should take some lessons from him.

at 1:20 PM

Anonymous said...

Who cares about a single critical post by a single reporter. One is a little critical to counter balance one reporter who gave us 5 votes. They are a wash. The important thing is the Bearcats are playing competitive basketball and have an opportunity for post season (Big East and probably NIT) play. We are receiving attention from the national sport writers and their voice has greater weight in promoting a positve image. Win more games and Bill will come.

at 1:25 PM

Anonymous said...

Funny guy 1:11. The next coach will take over for Mick in 20+ years. Deal with it, Xavier/Huggs/AK fan

at 1:48 PM

Anonymous said...

everyone is entitled to their own opinion. actually we have no idea of how good or bad the team is. for instance they lost at ncs when they were called for 35 fouls. it is tough to win on the road! during last nights game s vs g it was shown that the home team in the BE has won 34 out of 40 games. UC has a lot of company on the road issue. at ND UC led by 7 after being "precision homered" in the first half, look at the 1st half stats and especially the phantom foul on big mac. in the second half they were just mugged, forget about a deceptive homer effort it was the worst officiating i have seen since a certain super bowl. UC led X by 5 with a few minutes left at X! any body want to say that X is not a top 25 team? no i didn't think so. At one point i did not believe that UC would win another game this season, their play seemed indifferent at best. since then it is a whole new ball game! now i believe that they are just as good as they believe they are and i really don't know how good that is so they are as good as their last game. from now on that is what i will believe. how good is Nova anyway?

at 2:00 PM

Anonymous said...

1:20 Well put, I don't think Mick is the "excuse man" either. We heard the same stuff in Huggs first years at UC.
I am very happy and surprised what Mick is getting from this year's team.
The future is bright.

at 2:10 PM

Anonymous said...

as for bill, keep posting, we understand your coverage is from the old days reporting, still beleives negative sells. with that said we can handle the negative, i don't need bill to impress negative or positive on me, just report it.

at 2:10 PM

Anonymous said...

How was 1:11 a x/Huggs/AK fan? He called out Bill and suddenly not a UC fan? I see him sticking up for UC. Please explain your logic.

at 2:14 PM

Anonymous said...

Bill: to take it to the extreme lets suppose you played the #1 team in the country 30 times and lost to them all 30 times by 1 point. Your record is 0-30 but you may have indeed proved that you are the number 2 team in the country. 9-9 has nothing to do with it. It is about who are the top 25 teams in the nation at this point in time. If the season started on Jan. 1 and you had a team that beat Louisville, Syracuse, Villanova, and Pittsburgh with two road losses at ND and St. J would you not consider them for the top 25?

at 2:24 PM

Anonymous said...

I agree that UC isn't a top 25 team. I don't think they're a top 80 team yet, either.

BTW, Bill, it's etiquette for a blogger to join in a time or two on each thread he starts. (If you think about it, it's only polite.)

It's like inviting folks to your house for a beer, and then going to your study and shutting the door. (And we're out there say, "Well...hell...let's drink ALL his damn beer!)

at 2:35 PM

Anonymous said...

Is Stacy Clardie a UC grad?

I admire the way MC has moved Bearcats forward - but no way are they top 25. Probably will be next yr.

Bill - Like your reporting altho I'm an X fan. Understand you'll be voting top 25 while Dustin Dow in on his honeymoon. Please show the Muskies some Love.

at 2:47 PM

Anonymous said...

Bill,

I think you have an underlying grudge or hatred for UC. It shows in a lot of what you write. So UC got a couple of votes? Good for them. They beat two top 20 teams in a period of a week. They deserve it! No need to rain on the parade every chance you get.

at 3:07 PM

Anonymous said...

Bill,

Anon 2:47 basically beat me to it. Seems that many of us UC fans have the impression that you not only aren't a UC fan, but are for some reason anti-UC. Why don't you be a man about it and let us know where you REALLY stand? Oh, I think you probably already have...

at 3:12 PM

Anonymous said...

2:10...my logic is his very last comment that said (a few lines down) "for the next coach." That isn't sticking up for UC or Mick. Does it make sense now?

at 3:16 PM

Anonymous said...

2:24, to say UC is not 25 is one thing. To say they are not top 80 is ridiculous considering how they have played as of late. They might not end the year close to the top 25, but at the moment they are playing better than the 80th team in the country.

at 3:22 PM

Anonymous said...

Thanks for chiming in to tell us how much UC sucks Bill. Maybe one of these days you'll figure out who your audience is on this blog.

So what if they're 9-9? A team can't improve from one month to the next? This isn't the same team that lost to Bowling Green for gods sake.

Bill Koch is a dunce.

at 3:23 PM

Anonymous said...

I can't stand how people always refer to injured players on other teams, and how they're not at full strength.

HELLO? Mike Williams is our best player, and we haven't even seen him play yet. I know Pitt has injuries. So do we.

at 3:37 PM

Anonymous said...

OK, here's my response. Nine out of 10 articles negative? That's laughable. I'd like to see the nine negative articles that I've just written in the past 10 days. Am I going to report about another sex tape scandal? Well, yes, if there is one and if the university acknowledges that it's investigating one and the investigation results in two players being suspended. All I will say to all those who think my reporting is so negative is to ask the coaches and players who I deal with every day what they think of the way I cover this beat.

at 3:38 PM

Anonymous said...

We have not been at full strength all year; Williams out and Warren was injured, and Mcclain has had a foot injury.

Funny how for other teams they are not at "full strength" or some other excuse, with UC it is that they just suck or are a terrible team.

Some people need to quit spinning the facts. UC is doing well at the moment despite three injured players.

at 3:40 PM

Dave in Omaha said...

Who said that Mick is "better than any coach out there"?

LOL at imbeciles who put words in peoples mouths, then use it as fodder for their argument.

Mick is the right man for this job right now. He's proving it.

at 3:45 PM

Anonymous said...

Bill,

I think Coach Kelly already addressed his opinion of you and the rest of the Cincinnati media. He told it to the whole country.

Nice spin job on the alleged tape scandel. What it amounted to a couple of individuals engaged in a consensual act. Nothing illegal nor in violation of NCAA rules.

The individual who was suspended was suspended because he lied about knowing anything about the incident, not the incident itself. Let's quit trying to spin the facts.

at 3:45 PM

Dave in Omaha said...

Bill - I for one appreciate the non-biased views. Marty B. is lauded for his "tell it like it is" style that doesn't insult listeners intelligence by sugar coating a turd.

Keep up with the facts in your articles as well as your opinions. If they don't always getl with mine, that's fine as long as they make me think.

keep up the good work. Leave the cheerleading to the cheerleaders.

at 3:55 PM

Anonymous said...

Bill, glad to see you respond back to some of these posts...in fact, reading what you write and reading THEIR blog posts, who's really the negative ones? Some of you posters never say a good thing about anything

at 4:07 PM

rath said...

mick is doing one h*** of a job. he is exceeding what many thought he would do. the IQ of soome posters is lower than room temperature.

at 5:12 PM

Anonymous said...

Agree that a 9-9 may not deserve a spot in the top 25. But looking at the team's performance from the last month alone, it's harder to argue it doesn't at least belong in the conversation.

I really don't think many Bearcat fans expect to see the team even mentioned with the "others getting vote" section in the polls this year, so that's a nice surprise. It may mean nothing to the pundits, and especially not in determining who gets into the tournament, but to the fans it says progress and hope for the future. The media gives the team more attention, and in return more people (casual fans as well as potential recruits) will take notice. So to make a short story long, I don't care if it's just one person voting the 'cats unrealistically at no.21, it's a good thing. ;)

at 6:36 PM

Anonymous said...

As a true fan I am just thrilled to see the Bearcats turn around in just a matter of weeks. Imagine after the first 8 games or so even considering UC would get ONE top 25 vote this year! It has been great watching the rise in confidence in every game, its nearly palpable.

They are playing 'Bearcat Basketball" again, tough defense and rebounding can cover a multitude of sins. No, they are not that talented, but they have really played with heart and grit lately which is beautiful. If they can keep it up... who knows? But as a fan I couldn't be more proud of what they have done this year

at 8:27 PM

Anonymous said...

3:16 - I checked. RPI has Cincy at #92. Sagarin has them at #109. I rest my case.

To Bill Koch detractors: grow up. Bill's coverage of UC football this year was absolutely outstanding once the PRACTICE season kicked off. He was on top of it from day one.

In basketball, he was skeptical after those early losses to the Bethel Girls Junior High Teams. He SHOULD HAVE BEEN!

Yet, at the same time, he was saying that things WOULD get better. He called it right.

The ability to correctly predict is THE most important proof that someone is MORE on the ball than you are.

at 8:29 PM

Anonymous said...

Bill,

This blog is a shadow of what it once was under Trent and Josh. They injected some of their personality into it. They had fun with it. It was as entertaining as it was informative. You don't seem to get that. I can tell you for certain that negative BS like this most certainly is NOT entertaining.

As for the sex tape scandal, that was the biggest farce to come down the pike. An anonymous letter is not credible source even if the University is looking into it, yet you splashed the story ON THE FRONT PAGE! That's yellow journalism at its best.

I don't care how good a reporter you think you are... As a UC fan I don't like you. I don't want to read your stories and I don't want to support The Enquirer, mostly because of you. The Enquirer is the only game in town now though so I guess I'm stuck.

at 10:16 PM

Anonymous said...

All this silly talk is going to get Anonymous posting revoked.

It is not Bill's fault his editor took a story on a letter being investigated by the University and splashed it on the front page.

I have been very happy with the coverage of the overachieving Bearcats this year, especially without the competition of another paper. There may be occasional negative slants, but mostly they are devil's advocate quips, or just presenting the talk radio perspective... the "I dont want to think it but someone has to say it" side.

Bill,

I would agree more personality would be nice, but the depth of coverage has been excellent, keep up the good work. There will always be critical negative Nancies(no pun intended), don't take it personally.

Go Mick!

Go Cats!

at 10:25 PM

Anonymous said...

Here's how it could have been written a little more positively for us BLOG fans out here:

"I'm sure UC fans were thrilled to see those five Top 25 votes the Bearcats received in the AP poll this week. It's nice for Mick and the team to be generating some attention out there. As a 9-9 team, no matter how much it has improved in the past few weeks, they're probably not going to generate enough votes to crack the top 25. They've beaten two Top 25 teams in the past week and a half, but they still struggle to win on the road. Tha's what voters will be looking for as the Bearcats move deeper into their Big East schedule.

That's not to downplay what they've accomplished or what they might accomplish the rest of the season, but it's too early to be talking about them as a Top 25 team. By the way, those five votes came from a writer from the Journal-Gazette of Ft. Wayne, Ind. named Stacy Clardie. She voted UC 21st. No one else gave UC a single vote. So, flowers or candy might be in order. Obviously if UC keeps it up we may see more votes. Let's hope.

For the record, UC was last ranked the week of Jan. 9, 2006, when they were 25th. They had just won at Marquette and were playing UConn tough on the road when Armein Kirkland went down with his knee injury. They lost that game and four of their next five, and haven't been ranked since."

Remember, Blog readers are the FAITHFUL. We'd like you to be a little hopeful, helpful, happy, and positive (without being a gushy cheerleader of course).

You went to UC Bill. It's okay to show your blog readers that you actually support the school. We won't think you're less journalistic.

at 10:39 PM

Anonymous said...

god bless the bloggers who tell a degreed Journalist, who's been published for quite a few years, how to write.

you know, seems to me a university president around here could use a few pointers too. You bloggers got any ideas?

at 10:50 PM

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:39

She could make 99.9% of us very happy by simply resigning!!!!!!

at 6:05 AM

Anonymous said...

10:50, you have no idea of what you speak. Not all university presidents support athletics or let their AD's run the show. Check out Florida State for just one recent example, and others abound. You might wish to separate UC's recent success from Z, but you just can't.

Look, if the buck stops with her when athletic teams are failing, it has to stop with her when they're succeeding, too. Just because you don't like her doesn't mean you can throw objectivity to the wind.

at 6:16 AM

Anonymous said...

Hey, Bill, you said, "Am I going to report about another sex tape scandal? Well, yes, if there is one and if the university acknowledges that it's investigating one and the investigation results in two players being suspended."

In fairness, the only sex tape "scandal" was an anonymous source, which is rarely (if ever in reputable journals?) reported on. And the suspension was for lying about the investigation, not for any sex scandal. And the athletic department "investigating" it is not a story. I bet they're checking out wild stories like this every week just as part of doing business. But you don't report on those, because you're not receiving nefarious anonymous letters on each one.

Face it, you blew up a non-story into a story. You tried to drum up evidence (which I then thought particularly low and tabloidish) and now you're taking the spoils of that effort (the suspension)as evidence that there actually was anything substantive behind this. The suspension in no way proves there was anything to the story, only that they at first lied about it.

We will stop being mad at you in time, but there's no defending it. If you know anything of human nature you could shut us all up by issuing a big mea culpa on the deal and never mentioning it again. It just wasn't your finest hour.

That being said, I find you to be very positive about UC recently, and on that you are completely correct.

at 8:23 AM

Anonymous said...

6:05, you're absolutely correct! She should take you and the BOT with her wherever she lands - and the farther, the better!!!!!

at 8:36 AM

Anonymous said...

Tell you what, 8:23, why don't you just answer the point. I challenge you to give me something to justify not giving her credit now but blaming her when things are bad. If you've got anything substantial and/or objective, I'm open.

at 8:43 AM

Anonymous said...

how about her firing of Tomain from the Law school? The national ranking for the prohram has gone down in the last 4 years.

We love having an ACLU running that department. Not.

at 9:32 AM

Anonymous said...

Mmmm, nice try, but I'm talking about athletics. You can't change the subject and think you've made a case for the point. Care to take another stab at it? Athletic success only, now. How do you NOT give her credit for success if you can blame her for a downturn?

at 12:51 PM

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:43 am, the law school's ranking was dropping during Tomain's last several years (when I applied there it was first tier - top 50 that is - and when I entered it was second tier, only to fall further while I was there). It's poised to go up in the next rankings.

Tomain was a nice, smart guy and had been Dean for about twice as long as most are - it was time for him to go. He's still a professor there.

The new dean is well liked by faculty and students and is bringing in a lot of money for the school. He's also not pushing any ACLU agenda or anything. I think it was a good hire.

at 1:22 PM

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:32,
The prez is responsible for the academic standards of the university and the finances, not the performance of the athletic teams. She destroyed the finances of the Athletic Department in the Huggins matter. One case in point, Huggins dismissal package was $3M and she could have fired him for $2M. What did she gain? We dislike either way.

at 2:10 PM

Anonymous said...

How many wins does a team need over top 25 opponents to receive votes? Louisville will be ranked in the near future, so 3 wins over ranked teams, is that enough? That would be impressive even for a Huggins coached team of past years. Lets give credit where it is due. M.C. has done a great job and the kids are working their tails off. Hats off to all of them.

Only concern I have for next year, who is going to play the point?

at 2:16 PM

Anonymous said...

I guess Drake does belong?

at 2:50 PM

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure what Huggins' attorney proposed that made that go to $3 million, but I'm guessing the BOT just thought it best to pay it without a legal fight at that point. But that $1 million is peanuts compared to the debt incurred with varsity village. VV is a good thing, but Z did inherit that debt, not contribute to it.

Anyway, again, off the finances which STILL are not the point. I still say she gets the credit now for the athletics' success. No way around it - all this has happened on her watch and were her hires, starting with Thomas. At the time you might have thought it foolish to have fired Huggs, but that seems to now be a good move. Give me some factual point that lets you discredit her when the teams are crashing but not credit her when they're winning. You know, you're dodging this point. I'm going to give you one more shot.

at 3:19 PM

Anonymous said...

The Blogger is pretty F'ing Negative. We have alot of those people in Cincinnati. good god man, please tell me you graduated from UC? At this point, with your credentials, you have NO point in representing the University of Cincinnati Sports. You are not a national writer, you are a local BLOGGER. We dont neccessarily want your nonsensical objectiveness. Thats not your job. You are a blogger, and a poor journalist if that. Spare us your gloom and doom and embrace the bearcats as a great story of success. Top 25 votes ARE deserved. They are being more than one TOP 25 Team. Thanks.

at 6:17 PM

Anonymous said...

Personally, I think Bill's pretty objective without being a homer. And, I don't hear Mick's "excuses". I hear him trying to explain - in a few words - what's he trying to accomplish, how the team's responding, the state of the team, etc. I was glad UC hired him and the job he's doing is fantastic.

at 6:58 PM

Anonymous said...

Nolabearcat, wow!, is your real name Hep Cronin?

at 4:47 PM

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:50,

NZ gets no credit. When she came the BB program was perennial top 25. She trashed it with her mis-management. She imposed a death sentence from which the program has not recovered. Finally, the patient is out of the hospital and may be able to walk soon and you want to forgive and forget the incompetent driver than ran over him? Thank her that he can drink meals through a straw?

That bozo could have fired Huggins in March and minimized the pain or given him one more chance until the following March, but she bungled it and cost the Athletic department millions of dollars in ticket sales, alumni contributions, television contracts, and logo-ed product sales over the last three years. If the university has to pay $2-3M in order to break the contract, they should at least do it at a time that is convenient for the university. That money is important to the university. Why else would they allow Fifth Third to put their name on the Arena? You and 10,000 of your close friends should mail checks for $1,000 each to make up for that business loss. Then and only then we will accept her apology. But no thanks to Nancy

Previous Posts

Tuesday, January 22, 2008

About those Top 25 votes

58 Comments: