Why not UC as an NCAA at-large team?
Mick Cronin is beginning to state his case for UC to receive consideration as an NCAA Tournament team. His contention is that if the Bearcats finish sixth and the Big East is going to get seven or eight teams in the tournament, why shouldn't UC be one of them based on its Big East performance? He says those bad early-season losses should be discounted because UC was forced to play those games without point guard Jamual Warren.
“If we had had Jamual we would have been undefeated in November and we would have won some games in December that we didn’t win,” Cronin said. “It’s bothersome to me that as you watch all the so-called experts talk about teams, they say Cincinnati had some bad early-season losses, but it’s like nobody knows why.”
Does he really believe the NCAA will take that into consideration?
“They sure took it into consideration when Kenyon Martin got hurt and when Armein Kirkland got hurt,” Cronin said. “If it’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander. It should be the same rules. It should be the same logic, the same reasoning.”
45 Comments:
That-a-boy Mick, this is good timing to at least put your team out there. Get people thinking just before you play two tournament teams. Split the next two games and then push your team to the media as much as possible. It would be tough to ignore a 16-14 or 17-13 team in the top 6 of the big east.
Good for Mick! A little lobbying certainly can't hurt.
I'm not sure that I would compare the loss of Warren, though, with that of Martin or Kirkland.
His first game was the loss against UAB (played 16 min.), which made them 4-3. Assuming they started out 7-0, their current record would be 16-9 -- enough to be a bubble team anyway.
Still a longshot at this point. It still depends on how the 'Cats do the rest of the way.
Here's hoping.
All the lobbying in the world won't help him, if the Bearcats don't have a winning record. That means one of the away games and all of the home games AND 2 of the BE tourney games.
What I expect this really is is a campaign to ensure that he gets into the NIT by means of staking a claim to the NCAA.
Kirkland's injury just upset the chemistry of the team. Once that team got use to play without his minutes they were just as good, as witnessed by their NIT run.
Kirkland was an underachiever who wanted to be coach. He and Allen both contended they were using UC to prepare for the NBA. Go figure!
When was the last time the NCAA gave UC a break? Dont everyody talk at once! Wait a minute, I meant a good break!
I can see where Mick is coming from - if UC finishes in the top fourth of the Big East, I don't see how they cannot be included. It's clear Warren is a huge help and people keep talking about Dayton being a tourney team - esp. when they get their injured players back. I think if UC does their part, they could land an 11 or 12 seed (maybe higher). Wouldn't you hate to be a 5 or 6 seed and see Cincy as your first round game? Or a 4 seed and see Cincy as a 10? Who knows - stranger things have happened. Also, if UK is getting consideration, UC definitely should - there is no doubt the Big East is a much tougher conference(I don't know conf. RPI, but someone correct me if I am wrong)!
SEC is a joke.
They still have to win the games they are supposed to win and knock off either G-Town, Cuse, or Pitt at their place, and win 1 or 2 in the league tournament to have a chance.
I hope they do it, but there is still a lot of basketball to be played.
I like Mick's chutzpah.
Unfortunately all games count even losses due to injuries. When you lose to Bowling Green with RPI of 208 and other non conf creme puffs that doesn't help.
Bearcats to finish regular season at 15-15, and BE gets 6 at large bids.
Bearcats will accept bid to the new tourney competeing with NIT.
I still don't buy it. The only game you could say they definitely would have won with Warren is Bowling Green. But I'm open-minded about this. If they win 3 of their last 5 going into the BE tourney then maybe. But that means they have to hold serve at home and beat either G'town, Pitt or UComm on the road. That will be tough.
This is one reason why I love Mick, he just flat out tells it like it is. If you never listen to Coach Cronin's Comments with Dan and Chuck you are really missing out.
I was actually a couple days ahead of Mick, saying virtually the same thing in an earlier post. As a fan its amazing to now have some confidence again going into a game that we are going to win. I actually feel pretty good about going into Georgetown. I would be surprised if we are not at least in a position to win the game.
I really felt like a voice in the wilderness until now because nobody has even mentioned the possibility of making the tournament. I think alot of local sports guys may be a bit scared, because they still feel like it wouldn't take too much for UC to lose out.
If we can go 4-2 or so to end out the year, UC would have a list of quality wins that would be hard to ignore.
I like Mick's heart and that he's passionate about this but the bottom line is that we have to get a bare minimum of 18 wins one way or another. With only 5 games left and three of them against Pittsburgh, UCONN and Georgetown, it's going to be difficult. That being said, if we do get to 18 wins, with the tough remaining schedule and the Big East tournament, we should absolutely get in.
I agree with the people that are saying go at least 3-2 through the next 5 games and win at least 2 in the Big East tournament. That would give them a strong finish with a record of 18-15 (conf record 11-7, top 5 in conference), an rpi somewhere in the high 50's to mid 60's, a top 5 S.O.S, 7 wins against top 50 rpi, and an excuse for their early season losses (no Warren). They should be a solid bubble team with numbers like that.
But if they do any less than that, they really don't deserve a look for the Big Dance.
the mouse that roared.
rpi in mid-70's, 13 - 12 record.
NIT, maybe.
Finish the season first. The road games look to be all losses, and winnable home games.
0.500 doesn't deserve to be in post season play.
Anon 2:15,
The NCAA cleared Adam H. to play this season. My guess is if they had known just how good he really is, they would have ignored his "pro" stint and cleared him for us last season...LOL
Here is a sure bet! Seeing the words "logic" and "reasoning" in the same sentence with NCAA or their selection committe!
I gotta give Mick credit for that one. I am still laughing.
Finish the season first.
Nope, you can't do that. You need to put a bug in the committee's ear early when you've been less than an afterthought all season. A savvy coach knows just that.
BTW, Mick's not the first one to think this way:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bubblewatch?id=68
Hey I've been sayin this for the past four weeks. Remote but possible. Any fool....I take that back; almost any fool...could see this team developing confidence and cohesiveness after Christmas. During the pre moderation civil war days on this blog, I would offer this, then retreat to my fall-out shelter until the nuclear holocaust had passed. When I would emerge, all would be leveled. Tragic. But spring returns every year. And hope embodies the Cats in this, the year of the phoenix.
There's no reason a win at Pitt or Cuse is a ridiculous thought.UC matches up well. Georgetown at home is pretty hopeless. Win two in the BE tourney and you have a bonafide bubble team.
Just play em one game at a time. Mick continues to impress me as a level headed coach whose guys play hard and above their talent levels.
Cats don't play at Cuse this year, it's UCONN.
Danny C.,
"...if UC finishes in the top fourth of the Big East, I don't see how they cannot be included."
Top fourth would be 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th. There are seven teams in the BE with five or less losses. In order to finish fourth, the Cats need to win out.
So I agree with you Danny, if the Cats win out and get a bye in first round of BE tournament, walk into BE semis and they will go to the NCAA tourney.
If they don't finish fourth, a top 4 seed who is rested will probably beat our boys in the second round.
Old Timer,
That's about the only thing you've been saying the past for weeks that was right. I also got shelled in the non-protective pre-babysitting days before moderation. But, I'll take a free society anytime over a restrictive dictatorship.
BE will get 7-8 teams and UC will not be one of them unless we win the tournament. We just have too many losses. Twenty wins doesn't even get some teams in. We have a decent chance for the NIT, but the NCAA will have to wait until next year at the earliest.
NCAA's aint happen this year folks. The Cats could win out and still won't get an invite to the dance. The so called experts have written this team off for this season. NIT is in the near future. The NCAA's will have to wait.
Time to be a little realistic. If we make the 'little dance' NIT this year, that's alright with me. And, this is coming from someone who believes that there is only one REAL tournament. But, with the number of freshman we have, the extra games would be a plus for the future by providing experience. I know that Mick has been contacted by the 'petite dance' tournament people, but I hope we NEVER go that route. Settling for the NIT should be the lowest we go ever!
Have to disagree with you 6:51
If they win out as you say, that means the BE tourney and with it the automatic bid.
If you mean they win the remaining regular season games, that would put them at 18-12 (13-5 in conference) and an RPI probably in the 40's-50's and a last 10 game record of 9-1. I think that is enough to get them to the NCAA tourney. That would give them wins over Louisville, Villanova, Pitt (2W's), UCONN, G-town, Syracuse, WVU. Their record would be good enough, their last 10 games very strong and some wins over very good teams. Anyone on the committee would see this rapidly improving team and forget about the early season losses. If this scenario happens, I think they are in comfortably as an 8-11 seed.
My honest opinion is that they finish either 10-8 (win remaining home games, lose remaining road games) or 11-7 (win remaining home games, steal 1 of the 3 road games) and find a spot in the NIT.
Good comments on both sides. So good to eliminate the "sippin Mick" & "NanZi" stuff. Good work, moderator!
I hate raining on the parade. There is no way that the NCAA invites UC. Partially because UC will not finish off as strong as most of you hope. However, at the beginning the season, most believed that UC would not make the BE tourney and there was no way, according to conventional wisdom that UC would make the NIT. UC will do both with flying colors. This has been a really good year with the exception of those early losses. But since the last ten minutes of the Illinois State game, this team has played with heart and toughness and as fans we sould be proud.
On another note, one more reason why the NCAA and to a lessor note the NIT will not select UC is our fan attendance. Why would any organization that is about money select a team that only fills half of their home field house?
Get on board and attend the last home games.
hey 10:44 -
Sippin' Mick is still his nickname from me.
On Mick's point here though: I like him at least stating the team's case. Although they need to pull off a big road win before the end of the regular season to make his comments appear to hold any water.
Sippin' Mick Moniker Maker
I like Mick, but he is full of it in this transparent argument. Do any of you recall how UC played in those early losses? It wasn't a matter of missing a key player that cost a win. It was a matter of lollygagging around and not playing with any intensity or purpose. That is partly on the players, but it is also partly on Mick. Please spare me the argument about what might have been.
I think there's a lot of parity in college hoops so it's harder then ever to really tell who's good, what conference is the best, etc.
That being said, I don't think the Big East is that great this year. Really there are probably only about 5 teams and maybe 6 teams that should make it, but it's been hammered into people's brains that since the Big East is so big and generally so good that at least 8-9teams should go every year no matter what.
Do Syracuse, Villanova, Pitt, West Virginia deserve to go to the Big Dance? They all look like Bubble teams to me with the exception of maybe Pitt.
And UC is ahead of all of them in the standings which really throws people for a loop! Unfortunately you can't discount all those early season losses...even without Warren.
Which brings up another point. I don't remember Cronin talking a lot about how much they missed Warren earlier in the year.
I don't know. I like Cronin, and I believe UC right now is playing almost on the level of an NCAA tournament team...but I find him blaming the early season losses on not having Warren a little immature and a tad desperate.
With road games left at Georgetown, Pitt, and UConn this talk is all a little premature I thhink. If they run the table the rest of the year they probably would make the tournament but the chances of that are extremely low! That is a gauntlet to run through.
Making the NIT would be a successful year I think for the Bearcats...and who knows. Maybe they get hot and win the Big East tournament and grab the automatic bid.
Anon. 10:44...
I second that. Good discussion--differing opinions, but a civil tone.
Other than that, I'm doubtful we'll make the NCAA's this year. But that fact that we can have a realistic discussion about the POSSIBILITY is more than I expected at this point in the season. That's progress, and I'll take it.
Thanks to the moderator, and to all for the good discussion!
You win the tournament or you go to the NIT. It's that easy. Good Luck--you will need it.
Yes, it is doubtful that the Cats will go to the NCAA tourny this year. But to say "There is no way that the NCAA invites UC" is equivalent to saying the Cats won't win tomorrow at Georgetown. The odds are low, but I'm rooting for our team to win.
On Jamaal Warren, please consider that he is the third best player. Furthermore, if the seniors were still eligible next year, Jamaal could be starter and Williamson would not.
Politicing won't do much to get an NCAA invite, but winning tomorrow would be a good first step.
This is a joke, right? An early April Fool's Day prank?
UC won't make the NIT let alone the NCAA tourney. UK has a much better shot to make the NCAA as an at-large team.
What's this? Borecat fans dreaming of an NCAA appearance? Oh, how the high & mighty have fallen! It's hilarious and pathetic at the same time. UC won't make the NIT, and they'll watch the Buckeyes in the NCAA tourney.
Your Borecats aren't even the best team in Cincinnati anymore, let alone the state of Ohio. There's still time to support the best b-ball team in Ohio. THE Ohio State University is poised to make another NCAA tourney run. Get aboard the bandwagon now before it fills up! Trade your C-paw in for the buckeye!!
to 2:01pm
Yawn. I enjoy both UC and OSU basketball, it doesn't have to be a zero sum game.
I think my excitement for UC will reach a fever pitch if Mick can lock down 2 more 4 or 5 star recruits this year.
Who let the UK and OSU fans in? Where is that delete post button? ;-)
At least XU will play the Bearcats home and home, UK and OSU never do. Anybody can eat lots of cupcakes at home. Bearcats took to the road against some real competition, hence were ready to play Lville on January 1. UK didn't even show for their game with Lville. Come to the Shoe and we'll go to Rupp.
2:01 >> did I get a wrong score for the Michigan-OSU game? Freekin' Michigan?!?
We are 13-12 right now, we have 2 very winnable games at home. I'm not saying we are going to win those games, but we lets just say we do. We have G'Town today, Pitt and UConn on the road. We already beat Pitt at home, and we should but didn't, win the game against UConn. It isn't impossible to win 2, but likely to win 1. And we'd be dreaming, but dancing if we won 3. So we go 3-2, and end up 16-14 (11-7) end up 6 or 7th in the Big East. Georgia got in with a 16-14 record, and if we go 1-1 in the tourny ending up 17-15, we still have a chance, going 12-8 in the Big East is a good record, but to really get it, if we go 3-2, is winning a couple games in the tourny. Then if we get that, we should have a good chance, I'm still hoping, maybe we get a couple lucky breaks.
All I know is that I had no idea it would get this exciting so soon, and I'm happy that it is. If it doesn't happen, hey I'm not gonna be disappointed, but we have an outside chance, so lets just hang on to that!
Maybe next year, Cats.
Bill,
I think G'town just answered this question for you & Mick.
BTW ND lost to GTown by 19 at GTown, I guess that they aren't tourney worthy either.
I bet that UC has more wins in the RPI top 100 than OSU. OSU is already fading after they paid oden and company.
That awful, embarrassing loss at Georgetown destroyed any chance that UC had of making the NCAA tourney.
UC players, coaches, and fans will be watching as the Xavier University Musketeers get a #2 or #3 seed on "Selection Sunday."
UC will be lucky to make the Not-In-Tournament, despite all the bluster from Mick Cronin AKA "the mouse that roared."
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