It is what it is
As I was driving across I-70 this morning and down I-71 early this afternoon, I was trying to think of some original observation to make about the UC basketball team, but really, after 27 games, about half of them wins and half of them losses, there are no more surprises. John Williamson summed it up pretty well after the game last night. UC's game is to play defense and rebound, keep the score low and try to muster enough points to pull out a victory. There's not a lot of margin for error in that strategy. I hate this overused term but "It is what it is." When the defense lets down for an entire half the way it did last night, UC isn't going to win, especially against a good team on the road. Mick Cronin dismissed my questions last night about UC having only two players who can score, saying that it doesn't matter how many scorers you have as long as someone is scoring and the overall percentage is high. Maybe he's right, but it would still be nice if there were someone else that UC could throw the ball to for a basket besides John Williamson and Deonta Vaughn. One observation, and it's not an earth-shattering one: since Marvin Gentry went back into the starting lineup three games ago, he has scored a total of six points. He has missed his last 3-point attempts and didn't even attempt a shot during his 15 minutes on the floor vs. Pitt.
posted by bill koch at 4:08 PM
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Post a Comment*What I don't understand is the silliness of both sides of the Mick fence.
There has been progress, even a blind man can see that.
Deal with it folks - both sides. It isn't amazing, it isn't the worst.
Bill, I disagree with Mick. There has got to be a substantial 3rd scoring threat. That threat has to be either one person, or it has to be the "3 other players" who consistently put points on the board when not properly guarded.
Defense is always important, but with only 2 offensive weapons, defense becomes critical.
You beat all around the bush of a new take on this year's Bearcats. You perfectly described: "Above Average." Not Good, and not Excellent. Their RPI says the same. They are a B movie, a B grade in history, an 8 out of 10.
If they were a movie, they'd be Godfather III, and not Godfather I.
On their way, but not yet arrived.
This team may get invited to the NIT. It will be better next year. But lets talk about football:
Anderson football player gets UC offer
Anderson sophomore offensive tackle Andrew Norwell has been offered by UC, according to Anderson football coach Jeff Giesting.
Norwell is listed as 6 feet 6 and 255 pounds on the FAVC Web site.
UCfan79 -
Above average? They are below average, as evidenced by their below .500 record.
And Bill, that question about offense sounds like the wrong one. Should have asked him why fans should be excited about the team's offense now and in the future? (AKA what's to make us believe they will get past the below average level through at least DECENT offense?)
Sippin' Mick Moniker Maker
The slow the game down crap is the only way that they have a chance. This is obvious and it is very boring basketball win or lose. Perhaps if Lord Mick had recruited some shooters they could play a decent brand of basketball.
It is really too bad that the rules committee had to put a 35 second clock into play. This modified Tony Yates strategy of stall ball would work much better without a shot clock.
I am sure someone on here is old enough, besides Bill Koch to remember the famous stall ball game against Kentucky. Very exciting, well maybe not but at least they covered the spread and pissed off the Ky fans.
Bill,
I can sympathize with you on trying to come up with something new to say about the Bearcats. As I said in the "Remembering Lazelle Durden" thread, the 'Cats are what they are -- a team that has to limit the other teams possessions, hustle for loose balls, and defend, defend, defend.
There is no other 3rd offensive option. Despite his comments to the media, I'm sure Mick knows it.
There are no new game plans to come up with, as one of our anonymous bloggers keeps harping about.
The talent is simply not there right now for a big run in the Big East tourney or NIT or CBI.
Personally, I think Mick has achieved as much with this team as anyone could have. But he simply must bring in more talent for things to continue to improve.
His teams at Murray State played exciting, up-tempo basketball and were quite successful. He is not "married" to the current style that UC plays. But in order to do that, the solution is simple -- better players.
Every program (well, except maybe Duke) goes through a down period. We're in one now, attributable to how the Huggins situation was handled. That's not the fault of Mick Cronin; he was hired to fix the devastation.
Can he turn it around? So far the improvement shown is SOMEWHAT encouraging. How far can he take the program? I think he's the guy, but we're going to have to wait to see proof.
For those who ridicule Coach Cronin -- he's what we've got, like it or not. Bob Knight, Coach K., Andy Kennedy, Bob Huggins, etc. -- they aren't coming here. So if you have any suggestions to help UC succeed, let's here them.
What does UC lose from their starting lineup - is it 3 or 4 senior starters.
If I were a Bearcat fan my concern would be even w. talented freshman and Yancy Gates coming in 2008-09 team will lack experience.
Would guess the going will be very difficult especially early in the season until freshman get more game experience. Even then maybe another difficult year???????
The progrss this year HAS been amazing, to my mind. From how bad they were early to how solidly they have played of late is a long road, my friends.
There's a dearth of talent on this team, with some green frosh who should bloom over time. But they play with heart and courage, and are getting results far above their talent levels. I love rooting for underdogs, it's the American way.
Having played at the college level myself, there's no other thing I can attribute it to but coaching. Now if Mick is .500 in a few years with great talent, well then... actually come to think of it, Pitino had a couple lousy years down in the ville. Now he's back up on top. Cronin is young, smart, eager, and a great recruiter. This year he proved to me he can coach.
The naysayers sound more like grudgebearers to me. Personally I like the job he's done.
The job Mick is doing really is amazing, I guess I've just been jealous. After all, he did beat the crap out of the one former UC coach and is doing more with less than any other former UC coaches. Maybe not AK, I don't know, can someone tell me how he is doing?
Sippin' Mick Moniker Maker
AK and Ole Miss will not make the NCAA tournament. they have lost 4 out of their last 5 and are 4-9 in the sorry SEC. Their record was padded against cupcakes early on. However, I think he will do about as well as you possibly can at Ole Miss. maybe at some point he gets them to sweet sixteen but thats about it. Not sure he stays at Ole Miss long enough to get there but a collapse like this at end of season wont be create a lot of job offers.
I am worried about the shooting and scoring of UC next year as well. However, I think having a point guard that is a scoring threat will open things up. Im not sure why the other team guards warren more than 5 feet from the basket and Im not sure why anyone guards Gentry anywhere on the floor. He is by far the worst player on the team. Getting rid of him and his worthless minutes will be addition by subtraction.
There is no doubt this year has exceeded expectations and I really hope they play in the NIT and get a home game or two. Think Cronin will be fine but still a ways away from a final four or being a perennial top 10 or 15 team again.
Actually this team is one win away from having won as many BEast games as AK did with the likes of James White, Eric Hicks, Jihad Muhammed and Ced McGowan.
Monica Maker, the RPI is now in the 70's. Their early season explains their record. With 30 seconds remaining, They were in a position to win against one of the better teams in the nation last night. Yep, they are not an A+, they are not an A-, but they are a B team. Their current ranking says they'll beat 270 of 341 teams.
I think they'll beat more than that. They are significantly improved over their early season games. That's obvious to all but the prejudiced.
How about UC vs. Ole Miss in the first round of the NIT at the Shoe?
Then all you AK fans can come out of the closet and wave your stupid "Hire Andy" signs!
Mick or Dan Hoard called UC Jucos (Nancy hates Jucos) the Savior class. I call them the Salvage class. The Freshman plus Vaughn, one heck of a player, are the Savior class.
Before you start hating look up the definiton of Salvage and Savior.
Ole Miss is closer to the tourney than UC at this point.
UC79 - they are a below average team. Below .500 = below average in sports terms. The Bengals were a below average 7-9 team this past year, for instance. So I would classify the team as more in the C- or D + range right now. They aren't good.
And 10:10 - would be a good matchup. But if UC finishes at .500or worse they likely won't make the NIT. Even if Ole Miss doesn't make the NCAA Tourney, they almost certainly will. Of course they have a real coach.
The REAL Sippin' Mick Moniker Maker
I don't get what people want....if you hate Cronin then you probably miss Huggins.....Cronin distroyed Huggins!!!!!! Haha whats there to debate about???
Haha uh...what more do you want from Cronin?.....he beat your boy Huggins, he beat Pitino and I'm sure he would demolish AK.....anything else from you haters?
Yea, Cronin's team would kill Ole Miss, lets be real...
Those "Hire Andy" signs aren't stupid. He helped us through a tough year....but Cronin has coached way better than him thus far
Offense - what could have been. OJ Mayo and Bill Walker both wanted to play for Huggins. There was a good chance to see them as teamates at UC. Mayo is averaging 20.1 per game and Walker is averaging 16.2 per game. That would be some needed offense on this year's team.
I realize Huggins is gone, I am not living in the past, just thinking about what might have been . . .
Anon 10:10,
All we have to do is wait until WV comes next season and wave our Huggins EVER, NanZi NEVER signs!!...LOL
Everyone forgets that UC lost a McDonalds All-America player (Williams) right before the start of the season. When that happened you had to be realistic and figure that NIT was about their level. Put it in perspective, what would X be like without their McD's AA (Drew Lavender)?
The real problem, and where you can fairly criticize Mick, is not the recruiting, etc. It was the schedule this year. For a team with 7 new players including 6 freshman they were utterly overscheduled in the early season. At X, at UAB, at Ill St, at NC St, Memphis at home. Even their game 1 gimme was Belmont, a top 100 RPI team. It was too much too soon. They got creamed, and more importantly, it meant they couldn't get the freshman minutes. If you want to rip Mick, rip him there. The schedule is within his control.
UC vs tOSU in the NIT...no doubt played in Columbus
Anon 7:32, you said, "All we have to do is wait until WV comes next season and wave our Huggins EVER, NanZi NEVER signs!"
I cringed for the majority of UC fans, including myself, when I read that. How embarrassing for UC fans. You will not only look like an idiot on national tv yourself, but you will make the rest of us look like complete fools right along with you. Nancy's had the worst of it and she not only doesn't care what a few idiots will do, she survived this thing basically unscathed. You can't hurt her but you can make us look like we support a (now) rival coach rather than our team. You do get that it would make all of us look idiotic to do this, right?
Anon 7:18 am - If OJ Mayo realy wanted to play for Huggins, then why didn't he commit to Kansas State when Huggs was there or West Virginia thereafter? Walker I'll give you as he actually enrolled at KSU. Also, Beasley may have come to UC as it seemed he was tied to Huggins. That is more credible than Mayo. Cincinnati was never "big" enough for Mayo, or at least his ego.
If anyone remembers, Mick almost took down AK in his UC debut. Murray St. opened the 2005-06 season at the Shoe against Kennedy and his boys - need we forget, it took a last minute steal by James White to send the game into overtime. That Murray St. team was good, but there is no way they should have been able to stick with UC in the Shoe - for as hard as that season was, UC had James White, Eric Hicks, Armein Kirkland, Downey, Mohammed, McGowan(who was decent playing along side Hicks), and Moore. That team went 8-8 in the Big East and if the refs actually call McNamara for traveling, UC is in the NCAA tourney. I say all that to say this, UC and AK had a more talented team and Mick brought in his mid-major Racers (who got up and down the floor) and almost pulled a nice upset - oh yeah, Mick can't coach - BULLCRAP!
Mick doesn't need help 'Bearcated' for his alibis, he is the master of excuses.
Mike Williams has already played two seasons of major college basketball and lets me honest about it. He was a dud. Now with 2 seasons of not playing, well I wouldn't expect a whole lot. One thing he will have going for him is that I would guess that he will be almost 25 years old playing against mostly 18-20 year olds.
As for the early schedule being too tough. That is a laugh. No excuse for not being 8-0 before playing any real competition. A team that expects to compete in a major conference has got to schedule a few tough teams to be ready for league play.
I expect 20 win regular seasons against a schedule that is not overloaded with patsies. I do not think that is too much to ask. I don't want to hear how tough the Big East is. How many teams from the BE are going to win 20 games this season?
The Bearcats will finish in the bottom quarter of the BE tourney teams and end up the season below .500. Wow! If that is acceptable to you, then "it is what it is".
This magnificent improvement is being accomplished with 5 seniors and a sophomore getting the vast majority of the minutes. Who plays next season?
Not hard to improve upon a 2 win season. What is going to make them so much better next year?
Perhaps they should join the MAC.
Bill, AdamH had an excellent first half against Pitt, and a decent/passable 2d half.
It was noticeable a little into the 2d half that the team's defensive intensity was lacking. For the 1st half, I remember the quickness as the players shifted, picked up players, and got right up on them.
Do you think that fell apart in the 2nd half because of fatigue among the basic 5 players? If so, would that suggest that they weren't in top shape, that they are seeing too many minutes, that Pitt turned it up a notch, a combination?
Did the decline in 2d half defense have anything to do with the refs (and how much, if any)?
I'm so glad that the dastardly Huggins isn't here anymore. Now, we've got Mick and everything is just going to turn up roses. Just think - we might have gotten stuck with Mayo and Walker instead of Adam H. and Gentry. Who would have wanted to make a stupid switch like that, and missed out on all this comedy?
Sincerely,
President, 'We Love Mick No Matter What' Fan Club
I made a comment refuting UC79 comment about UC being a "B" team and being more a "C-" or "D+" team it appears Bill decided not to post it for some reason.
The censorship gets worse and worse... but only in some cases. Someone impersonates me and uses my ending tag and their posts get posted, yet I talk about why UC is a C- or D+ team and it doesn't get posted.
Sippin' Mick Moniker Maker
Anon 8:02,
The o$u has too much clout to ever allow that to happen, even in Cowtownlumbus...
Bill, I would hate to have your job the last two years when you needed to write about UC BB.
Hopefully, by 2010 you have the opportunity to write about a winning UC BB team that is fun to watch and competes for the top 20.
7:18, it is fun to dream a bit about what would have been.
You would have had Walker and Mayo, but don't forget that Huggs had the inside track on Michael Beasley because of those two. That's why he was able to recruit Beasley to K-State. He already had Devon Downey, too.
So, he'd have had a team of Beasley, Mayo, Walker, Downey, and I know he had targeted a big guy, but I can't remember the name.
Just those 4, though, are definitely good reason to wonder about what could have been.
Bill, I would hate to have your job next season when you're forced to write about UC BB not being any better than this season. Or, even worse, if UC still stinks in 2010.
CSA -
If UC improves next year at the rate they have this year, we could be looking at a 14-4 conference and record and surely a better non-conference record - is that ok by your standards? And to expect UC to be 8-0 in non-conference games is ridiculous. At XU, vs. MEM, at UAB, at NC St. (where they were screwed by officials), vs. Miami (who played well at the beginning of the year), etc... Yeah they lost games they should have won, but come on - 8-0? Tell me you have more common sense than that.
I'll admit, this team is a lot more fun to watch then the Huggins teams. You know, the slow, grind it out games that Huggs used all the time. The stand around and do nothing offense and then say "I don't know Chuck".
Even when they lose, Mick's team looks like a better coached team. They just don't have the talent yet.
Sippin' Mick Moniker Maker
It is what it is. UC basketball is now boring to watch and follow. What's left to blog about? I'm getting impatient only looking forward to basketball recruiting news. And the bad news is that there is no basketball recruiting news. Gates and Wright alone will not turn this disaster around. What if Gates or Wright don't make grades or get hurt? What if Williams doesn't recover? The margin for UC basketball to recover to upper echelon ranking is slim. This is depressing! When will the nightmare end?
I agree - when UC has a full stable of great recruits and a new head coach who knows how to coach and win, I'm looking forward to 2010 also.
If all these guys were gonna come here, how come Huggins and Kennedy couldn't bring in anything but thugs and mental patients after Mick left? (with the exception of Downy). I see Bob is really tearing it up now in the BE this year.
Reality Check:
Huggins ONLY got Beasley because he hired Delonte Hill away from his "friend" Bobby Lutz. He'd have had to fire either AK, Frank Martin or Keith (ZZZzzzz) LeGree to hire Hill and get Beasley. AT BEST he might have had Walker, but then he wouldn't have benefitted from a full year of not being required to abide by the NCAA's recruiting regulations since he would have still been a coach.
Just to refresh your memory Danny. Here is the Bearcats schedule for the first 8 games this season:
Nov. 9th, 2007 Belmont 8:00 PM WXIX (Peggy Cronin Classic) L 75 - 86
Nov. 10th, 2007 Western Carolina 7:00 PM WXIX (Peggy Cronin Classic) W 66 - 64
Nov. 11th, 2007 Bowling Green 8:00 PM WXIX (Peggy Cronin Classic) L 67 - 69
Nov. 16th, 2007 Coastal Carolina 7:00 PM WXIX W 74 - 59
Nov. 24th, 2007 Fairfield 1:00 PM WXIX W 69 - 64
Nov. 26th, 2007 South Carolina Upstate 8:00 PM WXIX W 69 - 57
Dec. 1st, 2007 at UAB 6:00 PM CSTV L 54 - 73
Dec. 8th, 2007 at Illinois State
Wow! I don't see Xavier or Memphis or NC State on there. I expect to see 8-0 out of a schedule like that. 7-1 at the worst (only because UAB is better than usual this year.
CSA,
And your detractors are the ones who claim that you don't know the facts? And, look at the "facts" in the form of the erroneous early schedule. It's funny how the Mick Lovers will resort to almost anything to support Mick and his brood.
Sincerely,
President of the "We Love Mick No Matter What' Fan Club
CSA,
the team struggled as they got used to the system. Most JUCO players take a year to adapt, and that is good JUCO players.
Answer me this: have they improved throughout the year. You were probably one of them bitching about lack of improvement, then when it happens you make up other crap to complain about.
Sippin' Mick Moniker Maker
Mea Culpa - I have to finally agree that UC is making very good progress but I'm still not convinced Sippin' is a good coach..
Sippin' Mick Moniker Maker.
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