The Final Four - Who will get there first?
Paul Daugherty has unabashedly predicted that Xavier will make it to the Final Four this year, but I had a conversation with a friend today who predicted that Mick Cronin would get UC to the Final Four before Xavier ever makes it there. At the risk of unleashing a storm of nasty comments and back-and-forth charges about who is and who isn't an idiot, I thought I'd offer that topic for discussion. Of course, this being a UC blog, I would expect the majority of comments to suggest that UC will make it first. But XU fans know where this blog is, too. So what do you think? Does XU really have a chance to make it to the Final Four this year? Does UC have a realistic chance of getting back there anytime in the near future?
posted by bill koch at 1:39 PM
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Post a Comment*Xavier has a really good shot this year (and UC has none), but if X doesn't do it this year, then a 50/50 chance between the two.
Both have young promising coaches that are developing nice teams, but you never know. I'd actually be willing to bet that Sean Miller goes to Pitt before X makes the final four. Mick is probably going to be at UC for a while.
Oh no you didn't!
i'm 23 years old. I won't live long enough to see UC make the final four.
Don't think Jamie Dixon is going anywhere but that said I think Miller will be somewhere in the Big East soon.
I'm 23 years old. I have already in my life time witnessed UC making the Final Four, the Elite Eight, and numerous conference chammpionships. I have never seen Xavier (OH) with any sustained success, much less a Final Four. When mid-majors make the final four it is a fluke (see george mason), so I would say the possibility is about the same as mt. adams getting flooded by the ohio river....possible?..yes..but not likely
I go to an A10 school and see the A10 competition. Generally speaking the A10 is highly overrated. There is one good team (X) and two decent teams (UD, Rhode Island). After that the teams take a serious drop. None of these teams can match up night in and night out against a BCS conference, except for maybe X. With that said, I don't see X going further than the sweet 16 unless things fall their way.
I think Cincinnati has a better chance any year they make the tournament to make it to the Final Four than X does, because they will be more battle tested against the big boys.
Xavier has very good guard play which is key to a long march run. They certainly have a shot to get there this year.
However, if they don't make it this year, UC has the better chance in the next few years as Mick's recruiting classes start coming together.
I'm a UC fan. Xavier probably should have made it last year except for the screw job they got against OSU.
They have a good team this year, but I don't think it is final 4 caliber. But they are always able to somehow attract good enough talent to have the potential to make it, and their coaches have generally done a good job.
UC will usually be playing much better competition yearly due to the differences in the A-10 vs. the Big East.
I think Cronin has done a good job, but I am not yet ready to say he can take a team tot he final 4. He needs a couple of more years of recruiting to show what he is really capable of accomplishing.
With Xavier being in the A10, they don't see a real competetive game very often, unless you call St. Joseph's a solid source of competition. This isn't to say that Xavier is a bad team, but they aren't a final four team. They will face competition game in and game out in the tourney, and they have been far too inconsistent within their own weak conference to be able to get through the tourney. After this year, X's seniors will be gone and I think years like this will be few and far in between. They just don't have the recruiting that UC will have.
Wow, I got on here before the Clown on a Barstool rings in. Xavier won't get to the Final Four because they have not been battle tested by their conference. Sure they've had close games, but seriously you can't expect a team who loses to Temple by almost 20, has to get a tip-in to beat St. Louis, and has to come from behind at home to beat St. Joe's to get to the Final Four.
UC will make it first because they'll have the horses, a good coach, and will be tested numerous times every year.
Bill are you talking NIT again? Oh, that was a slip. Mick Cronin is the greatest coach that I have ever seen. I am so pleased that he is here. Do you really think he will stay? I hear that Memphis, Kansas, North Carolina, UCLA and several other programs have him high on their want lists. You know they could still make the final four this season if the officials stop picking on them. If not this year then next year for sure because this highly rated freshman class is really starting to turn it on, thanks to Mick's outstanding coaching technique.
I see the light,
Saint CSA
Being battle tested in
a lot of tight, hard fought games in the second half of the season is what helps get teams to the final 4 by and large, with a few exceptions. I think that's why UC struggled to get past the second round, because of some of the inferior competition in Conf USA( aside from UL, Marquette, maybe DePaul). Same will hold true for X and probably this year for Memphis as well.
Time for in depth analysis - Xavier has a great chance this year because it has upper classmen and great, guard play. However, if they don't make a run at it this year, I am going to have to say UC. I love my Bearcats and I think the rate at which Mick has them going could lead them back to the Final Four fairly soon. Let the name calling begin.
Sadly, neither will make the Final Four. Xavier will not for the reasons others have already stated. Cronin will not attract the players needed to get to there. Cronin's years will be similiar to the Ed Badger years in UC basketball history.
Cronin is already attracting the talent to get there.
UC lost to a true potential final 4 team (Memphis) by just 10 points.
Don't let your worship for a past coach cloud your vision of reality.
I take UC in the 2009-2010 season with Vaughn and Aldridge as seniors, McClain, Bishop, Mitchell, Wilks, and Belton as Juniors, and Yancy Gates and Cashmere Wright as sophomores. Add in another freshman class and the chance that Mike Williams will get a medical hardship redshirt, and I think they can make a serious run at it.
2:17, so there is something to the rumor that Sean Miller is coming to Clifton?
CSA, you KNOW that speaking anything that is not 100% pro-Mick and pro-Nancy is VERBOTEN on this blog. Now brace yourself for the verbal punishment that you know will be arriving soon! - Your Buddy
Considering that FF participants almost always come from the "majors", I think that you have to give the edge to UC - Even if any particular year XU is having a better season.
Muskies have a better chance than ever to make Final Four this yr than any previous yr.
Miller has proven he can coach. Also a great recruiter - next yrs incoming class the best ever; features Kenny Frease Muskies first 7 footer, top 40 recruit. Shooting guard Brad Redford avg 40 pts game, just broke Michigan consecutive free throw record and a couple of other strong recruits and tranfer from Tulsa eligible in 08/09 season.
Coverse of playing in BCS conference is great competition but they beat up on each other and worn down by NCAA tourney time. Don't think Memphis will be bothered this yr. by not being in BCS conference nor X for that matter.
Can't classify X as mid major unless bottom feeders in BE and other BCS confs. are so classified.
Can a team not from BCS get to Final Four? - sure it's happened already.
Some ingrediants for Final Four - Good coaching, Senior leadership, geat PG, balanced scoring, great defense, good team chemistry that spells Xavier this yr.
MC hasn't had the players, he's done a good job this yr - but jury's still out on him.
Hey!! What is going on here? An actual discussion of basketball? Will wonders never cease? I have nothing to add, both sides have been well stated! Got to save this entry, may never see the likes again!
this is a stupid debate...please tell me who Xavier has beat this year on the road that is in the top 25 or even top 50?? waiting...and the lost by DD to Temple and ASU on the road.
xavier has a decent team...the funny thing is that this Xavier team resembles the bearcat teams that lost in the 1st and 2nd round of the ncaa.
they will lose in the first round
3:55 - Xavier is 5-1 vs. top 50 RPI teams - Lost to #1 Tenn;
Wins vs. - Dayton(17), Indiana(28),
Kansas State(33), St. Joe(41), Creighton(50). Three of 5 wins at Cintas, other two on nuetral court.
How much $ you got - I'll take your bet that X will lose in first round - think you're talking about your wish rather than logic.
This year is XU's big chance. With two senior guards, who both are excellent free throw shooters, they could make a deep run in the NCAA. In future years, I see UC having the better chance (maybe even in '09-'10), due to the opportunity to recruit better players in the Big East and the incredible preparation for the tournament that Big East play provides.
As good as Xavier is, I don't think they have faced many really good centers this year. There aren't enough of them to go around, and most are in the BCS conferences. I wonder how they would deal with a good one, like a Harangody (ND)on offense, or a shot-blocker (and now scorer) like the kid at UConn. They sure handled Michael Beasley, but he is a "4", isn't he?
And that brings up another point about getting to the final 4. Don't you need a genuine "5" so you have an effective inside-outside game? X doesn't have that and that may hurt. They did recruit the Frease kid for next year, so hats off to them. Those kids usually only go to a BCS school.
I am not knocking Xavier at all, I just saw how some really good UC teams disappointed because they were not challenged by some of the C-USA cream puff teams. While the A-10 is deeper and better than it has been for years, I don't think that league can consistently sustain that level of performance.
If X gets really hot at the end of the year, they have a shot with guard play and senior leadership. That being said, if they don't do it this year, I don't see them having a legit shot soon. As for UC, they're still a couple of years off of having any shot, but Mick is growing the team nicely, and as somebody else said, that 2009 team could be loaded.
I don't think X will get to the final 4 this year, simply because they're not in the same class as the top 8 teams in the AP poll. Add to that another 6 or so teams in the top 25 that are peaking right now that I don't believe X could handle, and I think an Elite 8 is probably the best you can expect, more likely a Sweet 16.
Hip-hip-hooray!
UC's going to Madison Square Gardens for a game or two. Then it's back home to crime-ridden Clifton. Heard yet another dead body was discovered lying around the UC campus last night.
UC BoreCats basketball: Catch the excitement! ...Then run, don't walk, back to your car or you'll be shot!
Bill, why on earth did you leave Ohio State out of the conversation? The Buckeyes represent the ENTIRE state of Ohio, not just Cincinasti. GO BUCS!
As a UC grad and a UC fan I have to say that X is the choice this year. They play UP to the competition (Indiana, KU) as they did last year, 1 sec away from beating OSU. after this year it looks like a toss up. X could wellbecome the Gonzaga of the East, with the excellent recruiting and coaching theyhave in place. UC has excellent material in place, probably superior to X when next years crop arrives, and no one can question (rationally) what Cronin has been able to do with a cuphoard that was bare. starting next year the 1-1 series should stay very interesting!
Suckeye Mike,
It's just great to have you back! And I see it's FINALLY with different STUPID comments. Did your mommy and daddy help you with this or was it your kindergarden teacher? You're a really swell LITTLE boy. Maybe if you continue to be good, you can still be an o$u suckeye fan fifty years from now when you're almost all grown up like a BIG BOY.
Suckeye mike-
Simple. The Suckeyes were left out of the question because they suck. If there was a state tourny for colleges the Suckeyes would be seeded 12th out of 3 major teams. You guys purchased 1 great recruiting class and thought it would buy you some leverage in southwest Ohio....NOT!! You waited for the 1 year that you were better than UC to beat us down, then went back to the cave for another 40 until you might possibly be better than either of the Cincinnati powerhouses. Hey Suckeyes, we BOTH have reason to hate you, just let sleeping dogs sleep, K?
Oh, as for the question at hand. X this year, UC IN IN 3 years. Suckeyes never again.
X has a good team this year, not a final 4 team, but good.
As for Cincinnati, I just got to laugh at anybody who actually thinks that team is anything other than bad.
There is no reason to expect anything much better next season either. Of course we can hope that Cashmire Wright is better than the 35 ppg guy that Mick brought in this year. If Yancy Gates really is the next Elgin Baylor, he won't be here long enough to work up a good sweat. I hear that the College of Mt St Joseph is looking for a bb coach.
Good try Bill, At least it took longer than usual for the diggleberry's to come out.
6:18, you think more highly of the blog cockroaches than I do.
2:20pm ...enjoy your past memories!
Cincy has six to date & X 0. Cincy probably gets six more before you can re-introduce the same question again.
"CSA, you KNOW that speaking anything that is not 100% pro-Mick and pro-Nancy is VERBOTEN on this blog. Now brace yourself for the verbal punishment that you know will be arriving soon! - Your Buddy "
Is this CSA incognito? Is he schizophrenically replying to himself? Sad, sad little man...
Xavier has a shot this year -- great senior guard play, excellent free throw pct., nice balance and depth.
But it's a longshot. I see Sweet 16, maybe Elite 8.
Good class coming in next year, but a ways away from that level.
As for UC, good class coming in also, and a decent nucleus of this year's freshmen to build with.
But, Final Four? It's nice to dream, but the talent level isn't there yet. Will it be? Who knows?
If either program gets there in the foreseeable future, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
UC has decent chance next year of playing above 500. On MC's 5 year program, In 2011 MC and UC may make the MCAA tournament at large.
UC football will make BCS before UC basketball makes final 4.
Don't you just love these trolls? Wish they would move to either Columbus or Siberia. It'd be a tough decision for them.
2:20pm ...enjoy your past memories!
As opposed to what? His FUTURE memories?
To the timeline deprived fan with only her past UC memories. Today becomes tomorrow's memories. Funny how that works for some?
Koch was asking who next (in the future) will make the final 4, UC or X. Dah!
Buckeye Mike -
So High Street isn't crime-ridden?
OSU is not part of the conversation here because they don't try very hard to be a part of this market. Tressel would not return calls to 1530Homer on Signing Day. In BB, OSU is once again refusing to play UC down here. (They got their once in 40 years victory last year and then slithered out of town) UK plays every year in Cincy, why not OSU at least every other year.
The bottom line is that OSU BB is just not a factor here (no one cares). And with what Brian Kelly is building at UC, they will be less of a factor in football as well.
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